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I've set up this simple forum as a back-up for the 3G community on Preludepower.com
For ease of use you can quickly log in using your Facebook account, up there /\ OR just register an account like usual.
1FunRyd's 88-91 Prelude - Auto to 5 speed swap, B20A - H23 Non-VTEC swap
1FunRyd's 88-91 Prelude - Auto to 5 speed swap, B20A - H23 Non-VTEC swap
Original Thread on www.************.com: http://www.************.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309921
Well the time has come for my personal build and swap. Its funny how I pushed so hard to re-introduce the H series motor swap for the 88-91 Preludes and I am the last one to actually benefit from it. LoL!!!
The reason I chose the H23A swap is simply because of cost. I sourced an H23A non-vtec motor for $360. I bought Osvaldo516's H22 tranny(92-96) after his swapped to the 97-01 Tranny which by the way is probably the best for gas mileage hands down. At 85mph Osvaldo's RPM was like 3500-3800rpm, just sickness.
I will eventuall swap to the H23VTEC BlueTop motor, but for now this will do just fine.
My swap will take me a while as my track record shows, just due to being a family man first.
I will update as I go along with pics of course and show the eventual results.
I am the Project Manager of the new aftermarket for the 88-91 Preludes, and with the support of Chedda Auto and Motiveforceperformancd.com I now offer the new H/F motor and transmission swaps into the 88-91 Preludes specifically.
Not only am I a swapper, but I also sell these outstanding mounts with other aftermarket projects for the 88-91 Preludes
Feel free to pm me or email me for more details on aquiring this kit.
Email: 1funryd@comcast.net
www.1funryd.com
Here we go......
H23A(JDM NonVTEC) motor and specs:
Donor Vehicle: JDM 92-96 Honda Prelude S
Mileage: 25k-45k miles
Displacement: 2258cc
Valve train: 4 Cylinder, DOHC, 16 Valve
Horsepower: 160 HP @ 5500 RPM
Torque: 163 LBS-FT @ 4500 RPM
Fuel Control: OBD-2
Compression: 9.8:1
Bore: 87.0mm
Stroke: 95.0mm
Redline: 7200rpm
Update: 3-21-2010:
The traction bar is a definite for all H22/23 swappers and just for those who want to stop wheel hop.
I can tell you all right now this upgrade is another leaps and bounds upgrade for suspension.
I took some real hard turns and between the Ksports and the 1FunRyd Performance Traction Bar and the Mustard Reproduction strut bars via Secludedluder, the lude has just jumped another notch for handling improvement.
So without further adu, here are the pics:
1.
2.
3.
4.
I need to explain something about the install, the picture below shows you how far off your chassis could potentially be. Do not freak out about this, when I saw how bad mine was I thought it was over, but once I got the bolts on and started to torque them down, it pulled the chassis in so that the lower bolts can line up.
Please understand, that the 1FunRyd Performance traction bar kit mocked this bar off a known good chassis with no damage, I found out that my chassis was damaged and slightly tweaked, so please understand that you may have to grind out the holes at times depending on your chassis condition.
They can not account for this, it is the buyer responsibility to make sure to fix any chassis issues.
But as you can see on the rest of the pictures, I was able to finagle the bolts in, but they were tight.
Transmission choice: 5th gen base transmission for taller gearing on daily commutes.
Raxle axles for the 88-91 Prelude H series swap:
Here is my new clutch - XTD Brand off of ebay $113 shipped.
Swap Day Sept 12, 2009:
Pulling the B20A out, taking off all connectors and so forth, fluids were all drained the night before. Ok well I lied, only the coolant was drained, I forgot to drain the tranny and the oil. So some of it seeped out while the motor laid on its front end, before we could get a tire to sit it on.
Engine out...
Since this was an auto, we needed to add the Clutch Master Cylinder and hardline. There was a plastic covering where the holes were so it comes out easy and we just installed the CMC right in. And then we needed to run the hardlines across the firewall and clip the line to the firewall and passenger side frame. I sourced all parts from ebay and the local junkyards for the manual swap.
We also needed to unbolt the rubber plug that covered the shift linkage path into the engine bay.
Another thing that must be done to make the manual swap possible is to drill out the manual bolt holes. They do not come pre threaded so you must drill all the way through so you can install longer bolts and nuts and washers to bolt the AZ Race H22 tranny bracket to the frame.
This is what it looks like after its drilled thru.
TRanny Work:
Dave used the 88-89 top half and mated it with his spare 90-91 bottom half and he used a broken bolt tab to secure the VSS down from popping out. Jdm3rdgenprlude used his old VSS by pushing it down into the H22 tranny and he had a working speedo.
This route has been tested and it does work. My converted VSS has not popped out at high rpms or given me any trouble. However, I recommed that the powersteering hoses for those who use it, need to be really tight and secure or they will leak, like mine is doing right now.
Newly converted VSS installed on the H22 base tranny(5th gen) allows the use of the manual speed sensor to be used, since this motor was OBD0 and does not have the electricall VSS plug.
This is not an issue for those who chip and tune with another ECU if going the H22 route with VTEC for 90-91 OBD1 Preludes, but if using the OEM ECU like in my case the P14, then it will be necessary to either allocate a 90-91 Prelude interior and engine harness or just keep it manual for the Non-VTEC OBD1 motors, or purchase an Chipped and tuned ECU to engage the H22 VTEC solenoid by rpms.
Interior work:
Here is the preforrated hole where the stock shift linkage runs through to get to the engine bay, it was not hard at all to open up.
In order to make things easier when trying to install the pedal assembly, it will be necessary to remove the steering column completely out, and disconnect it from the rack as well to make more room for installing the H23.
Here we are test fitting the 4th gen shift assembly in order to make our cuts to bolt it down to the chassis. You want to do this in order to get the perfect positioning for shifting or you will have issues with grinding or gears not going in all the way.
Make your marks on the center base and cut with dye grinder and use a ball pin hammer with some weight to hammer the metal down to get your position for the shifter assembly. You can use the stock bolt holes, but I decided to make my own in order to ensure the shifter assembly did not move at all. If using the stock threaded holes, you will need to drill and cut material off the shifter assembly base plate to get it right. The choice is yours.
Before cutting and banging:
And after cutting and banging:
The final shifter assembly in place for test fitting.
And here we put some insulation underneath the factory hole, to keep heat and exhaust out. I decided to go with the Accord shifter since it had a cover underneath the shifter arm, so that helped with sealing the hole better.
Final resting place and bolted inplace.
H23 and tranny going in!!!!!!
With this swap, you always want start from Rear mount first.
Then Tranny side mount.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/attachmen ... 44.jpg[img][/img]
Then Driver side mount, and wala the engine sits nice and tight.
And finally plugging the engine harness up to the interior harness.
Here sits the H23A in the chassis of an 1988 Honda Prelude Si:
Video of its first Startup and idle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34KZklCWmzc
My thanks goes out to:
Dave
Chris
Osvaldo
Ronald
Huy
With out my friends and fellow 3rd genners this would not have been possible.
Well the time has come for my personal build and swap. Its funny how I pushed so hard to re-introduce the H series motor swap for the 88-91 Preludes and I am the last one to actually benefit from it. LoL!!!
The reason I chose the H23A swap is simply because of cost. I sourced an H23A non-vtec motor for $360. I bought Osvaldo516's H22 tranny(92-96) after his swapped to the 97-01 Tranny which by the way is probably the best for gas mileage hands down. At 85mph Osvaldo's RPM was like 3500-3800rpm, just sickness.
I will eventuall swap to the H23VTEC BlueTop motor, but for now this will do just fine.
My swap will take me a while as my track record shows, just due to being a family man first.
I will update as I go along with pics of course and show the eventual results.
I am the Project Manager of the new aftermarket for the 88-91 Preludes, and with the support of Chedda Auto and Motiveforceperformancd.com I now offer the new H/F motor and transmission swaps into the 88-91 Preludes specifically.
Not only am I a swapper, but I also sell these outstanding mounts with other aftermarket projects for the 88-91 Preludes
Feel free to pm me or email me for more details on aquiring this kit.
Email: 1funryd@comcast.net
www.1funryd.com
Here we go......
H23A(JDM NonVTEC) motor and specs:
Donor Vehicle: JDM 92-96 Honda Prelude S
Mileage: 25k-45k miles
Displacement: 2258cc
Valve train: 4 Cylinder, DOHC, 16 Valve
Horsepower: 160 HP @ 5500 RPM
Torque: 163 LBS-FT @ 4500 RPM
Fuel Control: OBD-2
Compression: 9.8:1
Bore: 87.0mm
Stroke: 95.0mm
Redline: 7200rpm
Update: 3-21-2010:
The traction bar is a definite for all H22/23 swappers and just for those who want to stop wheel hop.
I can tell you all right now this upgrade is another leaps and bounds upgrade for suspension.
I took some real hard turns and between the Ksports and the 1FunRyd Performance Traction Bar and the Mustard Reproduction strut bars via Secludedluder, the lude has just jumped another notch for handling improvement.
So without further adu, here are the pics:
1.
2.
3.
4.
I need to explain something about the install, the picture below shows you how far off your chassis could potentially be. Do not freak out about this, when I saw how bad mine was I thought it was over, but once I got the bolts on and started to torque them down, it pulled the chassis in so that the lower bolts can line up.
Please understand, that the 1FunRyd Performance traction bar kit mocked this bar off a known good chassis with no damage, I found out that my chassis was damaged and slightly tweaked, so please understand that you may have to grind out the holes at times depending on your chassis condition.
They can not account for this, it is the buyer responsibility to make sure to fix any chassis issues.
But as you can see on the rest of the pictures, I was able to finagle the bolts in, but they were tight.
Transmission choice: 5th gen base transmission for taller gearing on daily commutes.
Raxle axles for the 88-91 Prelude H series swap:
Here is my new clutch - XTD Brand off of ebay $113 shipped.
Swap Day Sept 12, 2009:
Pulling the B20A out, taking off all connectors and so forth, fluids were all drained the night before. Ok well I lied, only the coolant was drained, I forgot to drain the tranny and the oil. So some of it seeped out while the motor laid on its front end, before we could get a tire to sit it on.
Engine out...
Since this was an auto, we needed to add the Clutch Master Cylinder and hardline. There was a plastic covering where the holes were so it comes out easy and we just installed the CMC right in. And then we needed to run the hardlines across the firewall and clip the line to the firewall and passenger side frame. I sourced all parts from ebay and the local junkyards for the manual swap.
We also needed to unbolt the rubber plug that covered the shift linkage path into the engine bay.
Another thing that must be done to make the manual swap possible is to drill out the manual bolt holes. They do not come pre threaded so you must drill all the way through so you can install longer bolts and nuts and washers to bolt the AZ Race H22 tranny bracket to the frame.
This is what it looks like after its drilled thru.
TRanny Work:
Dave used the 88-89 top half and mated it with his spare 90-91 bottom half and he used a broken bolt tab to secure the VSS down from popping out. Jdm3rdgenprlude used his old VSS by pushing it down into the H22 tranny and he had a working speedo.
This route has been tested and it does work. My converted VSS has not popped out at high rpms or given me any trouble. However, I recommed that the powersteering hoses for those who use it, need to be really tight and secure or they will leak, like mine is doing right now.
Newly converted VSS installed on the H22 base tranny(5th gen) allows the use of the manual speed sensor to be used, since this motor was OBD0 and does not have the electricall VSS plug.
This is not an issue for those who chip and tune with another ECU if going the H22 route with VTEC for 90-91 OBD1 Preludes, but if using the OEM ECU like in my case the P14, then it will be necessary to either allocate a 90-91 Prelude interior and engine harness or just keep it manual for the Non-VTEC OBD1 motors, or purchase an Chipped and tuned ECU to engage the H22 VTEC solenoid by rpms.
Interior work:
Here is the preforrated hole where the stock shift linkage runs through to get to the engine bay, it was not hard at all to open up.
In order to make things easier when trying to install the pedal assembly, it will be necessary to remove the steering column completely out, and disconnect it from the rack as well to make more room for installing the H23.
Here we are test fitting the 4th gen shift assembly in order to make our cuts to bolt it down to the chassis. You want to do this in order to get the perfect positioning for shifting or you will have issues with grinding or gears not going in all the way.
Make your marks on the center base and cut with dye grinder and use a ball pin hammer with some weight to hammer the metal down to get your position for the shifter assembly. You can use the stock bolt holes, but I decided to make my own in order to ensure the shifter assembly did not move at all. If using the stock threaded holes, you will need to drill and cut material off the shifter assembly base plate to get it right. The choice is yours.
Before cutting and banging:
And after cutting and banging:
The final shifter assembly in place for test fitting.
And here we put some insulation underneath the factory hole, to keep heat and exhaust out. I decided to go with the Accord shifter since it had a cover underneath the shifter arm, so that helped with sealing the hole better.
Final resting place and bolted inplace.
H23 and tranny going in!!!!!!
With this swap, you always want start from Rear mount first.
Then Tranny side mount.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/attachmen ... 44.jpg[img][/img]
Then Driver side mount, and wala the engine sits nice and tight.
And finally plugging the engine harness up to the interior harness.
Here sits the H23A in the chassis of an 1988 Honda Prelude Si:
Video of its first Startup and idle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34KZklCWmzc
My thanks goes out to:
Dave
Chris
Osvaldo
Ronald
Huy
With out my friends and fellow 3rd genners this would not have been possible.
Re: 1FunRyd's 88-91 Prelude - Auto to 5 speed swap, B20A - H23 Non-VTEC swap
Date swapped was: 07/01/2016
Its Been two years since the last update to this thread, so here is what happened this past Sunday:
Well after so many years of putting it off, I finally joined the VTEC crowed with the H22 swap into the 88-91 Honda Prelude
The H23a swap is no less of a swap by any means so do not discount its power.
Without further a due......
MustardCat(David) and Huy starting off 9:30am
luda8890(Tony) taking off the axles.
Exhaust dropped.
Traction Bar pulled and AC hung.
MustardCat banging away at the LCA to get the axle off.
Ready to pull the motor and tranny.
David working the rear mount. We discovered my threads on the subframe are fubar'ed.
Going to have to replace that rear subframe at some point or pull the motor and re-tapped the threads.....UGH!!!!
Its fixed for now, but pulling that rear mount will mean it will have to be repaired the same day.
The guys setting up the H22 changing oil, oil filter.
We power washed the motor to get most of the old crud off.
New XTD Stage 1 clutch and pressure plate installed.
It is stiffer than the last XTD Stage 1 clutch I had in 2009.
I decided to re-use my original AZ Race driver side mount. As it is easier for timing side work.
**Note: I was going to use the 97-01 powersteering bracket and pump and pump fitting, but since we wanted to get the car up and running the same day, we needed to grind the back of the bracket since the H23a/a1 brackets are the same bolt locations the only difference is there is a lip that sits up against the the H23a head, which is smaller than the H22a head.
I did not take a pic because I forgot...
New motor and tranny going back in.
MustardCat, Huy, and luda8890 dropping the new power plant in.
Determined to squeeze that big block in there...lol
Brotha Dima joined the crew later on, and got right into it...Ukranians....smh...lol!!!!
With this swap you need to get the Rear mount slotted into the T bracket and then run the bolt through but not all the way through to get some wiggle room.
Then the Tranny mount and bracket need to get installed.
This part was a Bitch!!! Because you have to get the angle of the motor right since the angle of the engine was not right from the beginning.
That is crucial being able to adjust the engine and maneuver it in place.
Wiggle...
Re-adjust...
Step back and take a break and rethink...
Bamm!!! Got it... now quickly Dime lock the S... down!!! Before it decides to move and run away...lol
Uh Ohhh!!!!! The rear bolt won't thread through....smh....:dontgetit:
Decided not to post those pics, too boring. Just a lot of more wiggling and groaning and gripping...lol
But we got it eventually...
Ok, time for the Driver side mount and bracket.
ehhh... that was simple...lol
Ahhh....home stretch. Start the installation of all core parts and accessories.
This goes here...
That goes there...
That right there...
Throttle cable hooked up...
I think thats right....:hmmmm2:
My rats nest hack job to fix the reverse light issue.
After more of the smaller details finally finished and thanks to Tony for cleaning up my rats nest, we have officially finished the swap.
Taaa Daaaaa!!!
Tony just admiring his handy work and taking a well deserved break. lol!!!!
oooopsss!!! Something is missing???
Uh Huh!!! the PCV valve. But the it needs a shorter one because this one sticks up higher than the H23a's did, so here is what Tony decided to do...
Yes he cut it down and then used the soldering iron to weld it back together to let it sit lower on the valve cover otherwise it would not close the hood properly.
Finally on the ground and finished.
Swap on Video from start to finish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OIimYBlWl4
I want to thank David, Tony, Huy and Dima for there help and dedication to get this project done in 1!!!! day.
Normally an project like this would take about a complete weekend with little things here and there, but these guys made it work and kept on pushing regardless of setbacks.
Because I had most of the parts in place already a swap like this is very doable in one day from tear down to up and running.
And yes we did get a start up and drove it around the block, and boy oh boy it is just as thrilling to drive.
I cant wait to really open her up and get that VTEC cracking.
I have run into some starting issues with some inconsistane hesitation. I will need to track down what that is but the car runs and drives beautifully and of course I have my AC system fully functional with full interior and sub-woofer and stereo.
Its Been two years since the last update to this thread, so here is what happened this past Sunday:
Well after so many years of putting it off, I finally joined the VTEC crowed with the H22 swap into the 88-91 Honda Prelude
The H23a swap is no less of a swap by any means so do not discount its power.
Without further a due......
MustardCat(David) and Huy starting off 9:30am
luda8890(Tony) taking off the axles.
Exhaust dropped.
Traction Bar pulled and AC hung.
MustardCat banging away at the LCA to get the axle off.
Ready to pull the motor and tranny.
David working the rear mount. We discovered my threads on the subframe are fubar'ed.
Going to have to replace that rear subframe at some point or pull the motor and re-tapped the threads.....UGH!!!!
Its fixed for now, but pulling that rear mount will mean it will have to be repaired the same day.
The guys setting up the H22 changing oil, oil filter.
We power washed the motor to get most of the old crud off.
New XTD Stage 1 clutch and pressure plate installed.
It is stiffer than the last XTD Stage 1 clutch I had in 2009.
I decided to re-use my original AZ Race driver side mount. As it is easier for timing side work.
**Note: I was going to use the 97-01 powersteering bracket and pump and pump fitting, but since we wanted to get the car up and running the same day, we needed to grind the back of the bracket since the H23a/a1 brackets are the same bolt locations the only difference is there is a lip that sits up against the the H23a head, which is smaller than the H22a head.
I did not take a pic because I forgot...
New motor and tranny going back in.
MustardCat, Huy, and luda8890 dropping the new power plant in.
Determined to squeeze that big block in there...lol
Brotha Dima joined the crew later on, and got right into it...Ukranians....smh...lol!!!!
With this swap you need to get the Rear mount slotted into the T bracket and then run the bolt through but not all the way through to get some wiggle room.
Then the Tranny mount and bracket need to get installed.
This part was a Bitch!!! Because you have to get the angle of the motor right since the angle of the engine was not right from the beginning.
That is crucial being able to adjust the engine and maneuver it in place.
Wiggle...
Re-adjust...
Step back and take a break and rethink...
Bamm!!! Got it... now quickly Dime lock the S... down!!! Before it decides to move and run away...lol
Uh Ohhh!!!!! The rear bolt won't thread through....smh....:dontgetit:
Decided not to post those pics, too boring. Just a lot of more wiggling and groaning and gripping...lol
But we got it eventually...
Ok, time for the Driver side mount and bracket.
ehhh... that was simple...lol
Ahhh....home stretch. Start the installation of all core parts and accessories.
This goes here...
That goes there...
That right there...
Throttle cable hooked up...
I think thats right....:hmmmm2:
My rats nest hack job to fix the reverse light issue.
After more of the smaller details finally finished and thanks to Tony for cleaning up my rats nest, we have officially finished the swap.
Taaa Daaaaa!!!
Tony just admiring his handy work and taking a well deserved break. lol!!!!
oooopsss!!! Something is missing???
Uh Huh!!! the PCV valve. But the it needs a shorter one because this one sticks up higher than the H23a's did, so here is what Tony decided to do...
Yes he cut it down and then used the soldering iron to weld it back together to let it sit lower on the valve cover otherwise it would not close the hood properly.
Finally on the ground and finished.
Swap on Video from start to finish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OIimYBlWl4
I want to thank David, Tony, Huy and Dima for there help and dedication to get this project done in 1!!!! day.
Normally an project like this would take about a complete weekend with little things here and there, but these guys made it work and kept on pushing regardless of setbacks.
Because I had most of the parts in place already a swap like this is very doable in one day from tear down to up and running.
And yes we did get a start up and drove it around the block, and boy oh boy it is just as thrilling to drive.
I cant wait to really open her up and get that VTEC cracking.
I have run into some starting issues with some inconsistane hesitation. I will need to track down what that is but the car runs and drives beautifully and of course I have my AC system fully functional with full interior and sub-woofer and stereo.
