I've set up this simple forum as a back-up for the 3G community on Preludepower.com
For ease of use you can quickly log in using your Facebook account, up there /\ OR just register an account like usual.
I've set up this simple forum as a back-up for the 3G community on Preludepower.com
For ease of use you can quickly log in using your Facebook account, up there /\ OR just register an account like usual.
Everything related to engine builds, engine swaps, transmission builds, and turbo charging
1 post • Page 1 of 1
These posts by B20luda were originally posted between 2013-2016. Unfortunately the pictures are lost to time, but the info is still good.
b20luda wrote: I bought a cheap prelude to do a simple rebuild and a cheap turbo setup on because lets face it... I miss the the b20a
I rebuilt the motor with H23 rods and B Series cast Nippon turbo pistons, supposed to be stronger and made out of a better alloy.. Not sure im buying that but hey whatever.. they were cheap..
Honed the block a bunch, did a half ass clean job, gapped the rings a bit larger than stock and shimmed the oil pump 3 mm's
This is meant to be a cheap build, i should have just at $2,000 into this including the cost of the car..
got some RX7 460cc injectors for free
got a Ford T3 turbo that needs a rebuild for free ( rebuild kit was 65 bucks)
Got the H23 Rods for free (thanks Sean)!
Using a modified H22a log manifold, super cheap 70 bucks shipped
Stay tuned more updates along the way
b20luda wrote: Spent some time on this thing again today, during the week i had the head surfaced and cleaned..
Today I spent about an hour porting the valve bowls in the head, nothing major just cleaned up the nasty ridge around the valve seats and smoothed them out a bit.
I wire wheeled and lapped all the valves, installed new valve stem seals
Also painted the valve cover wrinkle red turned out, meh.. good enough for this thing though
Tomorrow football is on so i wont be making as much progress, however i still plan to pull the car into the garage and yank the old blown motor out.. need to get the Alternator and all that other stuff mounted on the motor so i can see weather i will have enough room for internal wastegate setup.. not looking promising but we'll see
b20luda wrote: Today, i got the old motor out and removed the PS line so it can be modified/rerouted
Mocked up all the accesories so i can see what kinda Downpipe clearance i have.. and where to weld the oil return fitting into the pan..
Looks like it will have to be externally gated as well, internal gates are alot more bulky and wont fit with this manifold setup.. oh well external gates are a little more work and a little bit more money but it is what it is..
Got the oil pan welded up for the return and destroyed the egr tube to make a couple ghetto block offs for the EGR as i plan to break this motor in without the turbo on it..
If everything goes ok i may have this thing running by next weekend
Here are some pictures, posted in no paticuler order
b20luda wrote: Few things have happened..
Sand blasted and completely disassembled the turbo im going to use.. being the turbo was free it needed a rebuild..
Painted the turbine housing and center section with VHT flame proof < --this stuff is awesome. The manifold will get the same treatment eventually.
Received all the wastegate piping and downpipe fabrication parts from Columbia River Mandrel Bending.. i ordered it Sunday, very quick shipping.
The oil feed line and power steering reroute should be done tomorrow.
I will post more pictures once i get to the point of reassembling the turbo, i had surgery today so a little out of it but still managed to paint a few things
b20luda wrote: damn you're moving fast.
I would have liked to been further by now actually, but Football, surgery, and working 50 hours a week keeps a guy busy, not to mention i'm putting my 240 back together after i broke it..
it's called motivation and probably doesn't hurt he has good resources
I can do a lot at my house, i have lots of tools, mig and tig welder, etc sand blaster at work, and i have a lot of friends that have been into this hobby for as long or longer than me so we all have stuff laying around.
Not to mention this isn't the first time i've done this
Off topic but whats up with that sweet ass 240sx you built B20luda? Have any good vids posted up? Was that your DD?
The 240 has gone under quite a few different modifications since i first posted the swap a couple years back, its been running great, just wasnt satisfied with the power, so i yanked the motor swapped to a ported rb26 head along with cams, RB26 ITBS, bigger turbo, the list goes on..
Id like to get around 700whp out of it eventually just need time to play with it more, its currently down due to it pulling apart a motor mount and breaking a power steering line as a result.. so getting that ironed out currently
There is a video of it in the street racing forum, nothing to exciting, but watching that will lead you to another
b20luda wrote: I went to work on the car this weekend, was going to put the motor in the car, and discovered the clutch i had was out of an 88-89 car, so that really put the brakes on my progress this weekend..
I decided to splurge and buy a nice comp stage 2 clutch for it.. so that will put me over my 2k budget, but im not buying some cheap china clutch..
i did however get intake manifold, water pipe, and valve cover final bolted on, and i also finished the complete sandblast/rebuild on my turbo it came out tits
If i get the clutch by this weekend i will surely have the motor in it and running
Here are some pictures of the turbo rebuild i modified the compressor housing so it doesn't require a bolt on flange for the compressor outlet
everything in the turbo was replaced, bolts, clamps, bearings, seals, snap rings, etc etc i even polished the the shaft.. Sounds bad, but i DID!! lol
b20luda wrote: hanks man, I can't say enough about that VHT flame proof, its holds up really well for the price, probably doesn't hold much heat in, But for keeping rust off turbos and manifolds etc its great
Making fast progress. I envy the work you seem to consider sub-par. That turbo looks new to me. And that port job would take me twice as long, or more.
Thanks, this is my first journal bearing turbo rebuild ( I've repaired 1 ball bearing previously) turbo feels much better, it was a sloppy mess before..
Im not really expecting the porting to do much of anything but it can't hurt. This particular head 91 (b21) had some pretty bad ridges in the valve bowls, way worse than the H22a that i did for the other car..
I got tracking info for that clutch and it wont be here till Tuesday! Gay!
So i may put the motor in the car and put the trans in later, we'll see, im getting tired of pushing this thing in and out of the garage..lol
b20luda wrote: Mini update, put the motor in and hooked up misc stuff, and installed the rerouted ps line.. fits good!
Clutch will be here tomorrow, so it should be running this weekend for sure
b20luda wrote: You're keeping ac?
Im going to try, i think it will work, downpipe will be tricky but i think i can snake it thru.
looks awesome Luda. Know its a build thread but i had a quick question. on that manifold did you just widen the mounting holes? Really makes me want to get off my ass and do a budget turbo build.
Thanks, i traced the b20a gasket onto the h22a manifold, opened up the holes accordingly and port mached the center runners.. thats it
Damnnn. Drools I wish all build threads moved this fast! Lol. Valve cover looks tits!
Thanks, clutch should be here today, car will be totally together this weekend, probably Saturday, expect a start up video and moar pictures!
b20luda wrote: UPDATE!
This weekend i got quite a few things done, still some stuff to do before i turbocharge this thing, but we got a runner!!
I'm getting everything working properly and sorted prior to me turbocharging. Also making sure the engine runs properly of course, much easier IMO to break in not worrying about a tune etc, not to mention i beat my engines on break in normally, pussy footing around is for the weak and retarded.. its already seen WOT 6500rpm 1st 2nd 3rd gear
I've never had a battery hooked up to this thing since i bought it. So yeah, discovered car has a few issues that needs sorted, ABS light was on, power windows don't work, alternator didn't charge, rear defroster doesn't work.
I have fixed everything but the windows and rear defroster, fuse keeps blowing whenever you hit the button for the windows, I will look into that more soon. The rear defroster is missing its relay for some reason.. i don't have a relay around so i'm gonna rape the junkyard soon.. going to look at the windows first so i don't have to make 2 trips just in case i need something else.
Kinda sucks, the car has a Honda reman denso alternator, good stuff!! but it didn't work, so i found one from a local luder and installed that, STILL didn't charge.. god damit! pulled out the manual and started testing the wires going to the alternator and checking fuses, everything pointed to another bad alternator.. but i know it worked on the other guys car.. so after staring at it for a little bit ( car was running) i gave it little tap with a hammer, BAM sure as shit it started working, haha, been fine ever since! Ive had this happen before and a hammer did the trick, perhaps the brushes were stuck or something.. i dunno who cares it works!
The engine runs great, car passed emissions today and i got my tabs, its currently got 22 miles on it for being super low compression it gets after it pretty well.. this engine is probably around 7.5:1 with the b21 head and those B series cast turbo pistons.. litter lower than i wanted but.. but there cheap and it will allow more boost
The comp stage 2 clutch has a SUPER light pedal and is very easy to drive super happy i bought a decent clutch for it..
Here is a completed picture and a gay little cell phone video.
Video audio is terrible engine sounds great in person the exhaust has a hole in it, it really isn't as loud as the video portrays reguardless all this will be changed when the whirligig finds its home.
b20luda wrote: Today i attempted to put some washer fluid in the car and i forgot the motor was popped out.. soo it kinda snow balled into the following
cleaned and reinstalled washer motor
swapped out worn power steering pump with another i had around
repainted windshield wiper arms and "tuned up" the wipers with some alcohol wipes..
I was going to cut the shifter down some but i decided to wait until i have a shift knob to use..
Im thinking next weekend will be the time i start the turbo install..
b20luda wrote: Started tearing into this thing today, should have it running and have the hard stuff done tomorrow..
Took entirely too long to get the wastegate and downpipe fabricated but its pretty much done.
I had to modify the manifold a bit more so it would clear the factory washers and nuts
Putting everything i fabricated in for good tomorrow and will start on charge pipe and meth kit install..
b20luda wrote: AHH trying to get AC to fit with the downpipe and new found hood clearance issues with the compressor housing faced up ( like in the other pictures).. the charge pipe would hit the hood..
SOoOoO i clocked the compressor housing again, relocated a few relays played with the lower radiator hose bracket and bent the AC line some..
Cut and welded up the charge pipe today after work and welded on the BOV flange.. so were getting closer, need to take it out and paint it black, polished intercooler pipes in an old ass terd of a car is gay..
b20luda wrote: Car is currently at the exhaust shop getting 2.5 put on.. Ive built both the exhausts on my other cars, but i just dont care enough to do it to this, plus its only a 100 bucks more just to have someone do it.. and i get to keep my saturday!!
injectors and hondata install likely happening tonight or tomorrow
b20luda wrote: This weekend pretty much got her all wrapped up.. few things i still need to do but it drives and runs like stock with the base map i built... i impressed myself..lol
Installed the Meth kit along with Hondata and my free RX7 460cc injectors
I put together a simple base map scaled the bigger injectors , stuck a wideband in the exhuast and let er rip.. i need to tune it.. its pretty rich and somewhat erratic in boost AFR wise, so ill dial that in and she should be good, burns the tires thru 2nd gear on 6.5 psi, got the timing knocked back pretty good too, so im sure it will be pretty fun turned up to 10 psi tuned
2.5 inch exhaust and that magnaflow muffler sounds great, its deep and very very quiet i love it, im 100% surprised on how quiet it is...
I will post a few pictures of the meth when i get some more time..
b20luda wrote: I tuned the AFRs a bit today, its running real good!! however my laptop shit the bed so yeah, looks like im gonna have to use my old 2001 laptop to finish it up.
Awesome bro! Sounds good. Can't wait to see pics and vids!
I was going to make a video today, but my "tuning" laptop is being really gay have to send it back to Dell..
your putting methanol on this one too? damn...
Yes, im not running an intercooler so it needs something to keep it cool..not to mention its cheaper, easier to install, and boosts octane.. great for lower budgets
hmm ten psi, trying to keep it in range of the factory map sensor?
Yeah. shit rips pretty good on 7psi, i dont think it will need to go over 10psi
b20luda wrote: I'm using hondata S300, I found it on craigslist already installed in a p75 for 350 dollars.. couldnt resist.. ecu was modded for boost control and vtec too..
The meth kit I got for 150 bucks NIB and I'm using hondata to control it instead of the pressure switch the kit comes with.. little bit more adjustibility this way, and can datalog when it comes on. it definatly works good for heat.. you can watch the intake air temps drop quickly when it comes on.
b20luda wrote: Hope this doesn't track off topic...
You recommend water/meth in lieu of intercooling on higher boost, higher power setups as well?
I wouldn't replace an intercooler with a meth kit on a higher powered setup, With enough water/meth im sure it could have the potential to work well, however there comes a point to where constantly refilling your tank gets a little out of control when using large nozzles and having a low activation point..
I use a meth kit with a 12gph nozzle on my H turbo prelude but im using that in conjunction with an intercooler, I more so use the kit to up my pump gas boost threshold i run 28psi or so on 92 with it.. over 600whp
The ONLY reason i did it to this budget b20a5 build is simplicity, and bang for the buck... Seems im not pushing any kinda knock threshold or pushing the turbo hard, the meth kit will cool the charge very well and also provide higher resistance to knock.
Here are a few pictures of the install, i had to relocate the Cruise control vacuum tank and move a few things around.. but other than that it was pretty straight forward as i mentioned earlier instead of using the kits supplied pressure sensor to activate the system, i decided to let hondata control it threw a relay so i can adjust activation according to IAT ECT RPM boost Speed and throttle position..
http://imageshack.us/a/img248/5483/2013 ... 119hdr.jpg
Next weekend i will be changing the valve stem seals, i noticed that they were leaking badly when i swapped over manifolds, ( i figured they were it smokes on start up) Im not sure what happened here ive installed lots of these in the past without issue.. im assuming there just shit seals being the kit they came out of was an Ebay deal..
This procedure will be done on the car without cylinder head removal in case people were wondering why i went ahead and turbocharged it anyway.
Some other things i noticed during this escapade, power steering pump pulleys are not all the same, the offset of the pulleys is different on some models, not sure which ones, but the PS belt was noticeably misaligned.. so watch out for that
1991 B21 engine harnesses require no wire swaping from pin D14 to B12 when using civic/teg ECU's... I have a b21 harness from a 90 prelude in my h22 car and it required this swap, but the 91 didnt, i swapped these wires around prior to the ECU swap thinking it needed it and got a CEL, for what i had swapped..lol i was like WTF is going on here.. so after further investigation ( looking at some wire diagrams) i noticed its only 1991 OBD1 B21 harnesses that are correct.
b20luda wrote: I'm glad to see someone use that H22 log manifold! I bought one just like it for $40, but was a little worried about downpipe clearance. I like your wastegate re-route as well. More pics?
The wastegate meets/bolts directly to a flange on the downpipe, there is a picture of that in this thread somewhere already
Downpipe clearance is TIGHT, almost too tight, i had to de-pin the alternator connector and place each pin in it one by one, i just heat shrinked each wire individually and put a small piece of high heat insulation around all of them. seems ok so far..
On another note, i have replaced all the valve stem seals and installed an oil restrictor in the turbo and it has stopped smoking.. I installed the restrictor just for precaution.. it stopped smoking after the seals were replaced..
Just a tip, use good valve stem seals.. I was questioning these from the start because they weren't distinguishable from intake and exhaust. but yeah, lesson learned.. I used the Ebay Evergreen kit FYI
Car has 490 miles on it since its been put together only about 150 of those are turbocharged miles, i wasn't driving it much due to the stem seals and i had no cooling fans installed.. both of those issues are addressed now. She's ready for some more tuning and a few more lbs of boost.. it will be seeing daily driver duty very soon.
I raced my brothers 2002 Acura CL Type-S 6 speed the other night.. we were about even. Prelude only hits 4 psi up to about 5k and slowly creeps to about 7psi by 7000 RPM too, i need to get a boost controller on this thing! that model of CL does mid 14's stock FYI
b20luda wrote: Im currently running a precision 50trim with no restrictor and it does not smoke. Had a restrictor on before but removed it and so far no smoke problems. I really like how the engine bay looks almost stock.
Precision recommended a restrictor if using a -4 feed line... which i am
Went and did some tuning this evening, getting part throttle ironed out some, still needs some work i only spent about an hour on it.. she was WAAAYYY Rich in boost like 10.0 -10.5 AFR'S after 6000RPM or so, got that all tuned sits at around 11.5 -12.0 in boost now, still need to touch that up some more.. but we are plugging away at it.. played with idle and fueling for that as well.. RX-7 injectors idle perfectly its runs fantastic my goal is to get this thing tuned fairly lean in the real high vacuum cells and give it more ignition timing.. i thinking it should get at least 30mpg this way.. we shall see
Also put some timing back in, i was pulling 2 degrees per lb of boost, i put it down to 1.25 now.. didnt seem to change much power wise.. when it gets to the dyno some day i will play with that more...
b20luda wrote: Mitch,
Would you mind sharing your map with me?
I've been told 11.5-12 is lean under boost... Was I told wrong?
Yeah I don't mind sharing.. I'm using hondata S300 so you'll have to download that to see it unless your using that too..
11.5-12 is where you want it in boost you can get away with leaner in the lower boost stuff but I like to have a saftey margin.. some engines like to be rich some like to be lean.. my nissan made noticeable power increases with a 11.8-12 mixture. I've had engines in the past not care if it was 10.5 or 12.. however Egt sky rockets with rich mixtures and who wants to waste fuel these days.
b20luda wrote: Small but worthy update, i have put 200 miles on this thing in the last 3 days, 120 of those were for work and the rest was around town running errands/ a little tuning..
Went out today to dial in a few things better, worked on part throttle some more, this thing runs great! 40 degrees of timing and 15.2-15.8 AFR in the mid-high vacuum columns.. this thing should get great fuel economy..
I also turned the boost up from 6-7 psi to about 11psi today.. noticeably faster of course, tuned the AFR's nice and steady around 11.6-12.0
I have 200 miles on this tank so far and its just above a half tank.. I have been raping this thing quite a bit so i could get all the boost tuning sorted out.. It should be even better now that i wont be constantly boosting it hard to redline in 4th gear
I also got the stock condenser fan to fit after massaging the AC lines a bit, so no need to buy another slim fan!
I need to fabricate some kinda catch can setup, the breather off the valve cover is totally open.. no oil comes out or anything and it actually isn't smelly which i found odd, but i will be making something to sort that out next.
b20luda wrote: hey man any new updates
Meh Kinda, its been running fantastic, got about 1300 miles on it now.. Its all i have been driving.. Its been getting a consistant 27 mpg, I might try and do a little more tuning, i anticipated it to be best 30mpg but it hasn't yet.
I still need to build a catch can setup, been kinda lacking that, but its not spitting any oil out the breather which is good
Its been running about 9-10psi i was door to door with a co-workers 08 Mustang GT. Its an 08 with a CAI, mufflers, and a tune.
b20luda wrote: More news, cars been running great, i drive it everywhere, after some alternator woes i managed to do a few things to her.. its knocking on 2000 miles still getting about 26-27mpg
I did do some more tuning today, should help fuel economy, we shall see in the coming weeks..
I got the AC charged and working correctly, i ended up bypassing that homo compressor control system entirely because its not needed and its gay.. the sensors on the ac compressor were not working from what i could tell.. but its got about 38 degrees out of the vent now..
I replaced the shitty wire clamp style battery terminals with some nicer solder ones with heat shrink tubing..
Cut and welded the shifter took about an inch or so out and installed my favorite shift knob (integra GSR) much better!
My boost gauge also had the most obnoxious beep when you key on and start, so i mangled that terd and ripped out that fucking beeper/speaker thing.. i was ready to smash that thing.
b20luda wrote: installed a 3bar map sensor i found laying around, it was only reading about 9.5 psi max in Hondata which isnt entirely accurate it will go to 10-11psi.. so scaled in this 3 bar sensor, had to give her a little refresh on the tune as it thru off the AFR's a bit. I cranked up the boost to 13-14psi haha its a little Rocket! but i turned it back down to 11-11.5psi trying to see how long this thing will last.. i have been beating the living piss out of this thing... 10-11psi 2nd 3rd 4th rev limiter... haha, dozens of times
Anyway i finally managed to get a catch can setup built.. i made it out of a scrap peice of 3inch aluminum tubing. It has 2 1/2 inch inlets that are baffled and 1 3/4 inch outlet that will recirculate back into the turbo.
I dont normally recirculate back into the turbo, but this is a daily driver, and being its baffled really well it shouldn't find its way back to the motor. I used some clear hose to monitor what might get past the can..
I may add a vent off the can to atmosphere if i get to much suction from the turbo.
b20luda wrote: I still like the non intercooled setup, funny thing is I've seen setups like that on supercharged mustangs for years, only the import crowd screams bloody murder when you run a direct setup
At the end of the day it would be better to have an intercooler, it helps prevent it from getting heat soaked.. after my 20 mile hwy cruise on the way home from work i have seen 175 degree IAT's it gets HOT!!! Once the meth kicks in it drops pretty good down to 150 or so, it takes a couple few beatings to get it down to reasonable levels like 120 or so..
However having the Fuel and Ignition compensation tables set correctly for the large sway in IAT temps helps alot with driveabilty, fuel economy and SAFETY..
But not having an intercooler, loud exhaust, wheels, being lowered etc.. lots of power and people/cops don't look twice at you.. its a great driver..
I may up the size of the meth nozzle 1 or 2 sizes to help cool it down a bit quicker
b20luda wrote: Anywho yes this pile of shit blew a head gasket in the weirdest way... blew it so bad to the point i had to tow it home..
Started it up to drive home from work, everything is normal at this point, stopped by the bank, went to leave and the car started missing a little bit, and then full on white smoke bad misfire, could totally smell coolant..
Not sure why it failed, head was surfaced engine has almost 3k miles on it.. i haven't heard all good about the evergreen head gaskets, not sure if its the issue.. the tune is conservative and i have BEAT this fucker pretty hard and it been rock solid all along... the rear main seal is also leaking.. im not new to building engines... Lets just say this will be the last time i use a cheap gasket kit.
I plan to take it apart when i get sometime, im busy with other projects at the moment so we'll just have to wait and see..
b20luda wrote: these motors are fairly solid with mild boost head gasket wise.. i never had issues back in the day at 300whp... its only when i started pushing 350whp that they started failing..
I will buy an OEM honda gasket, to do cometic right you need to deck the block.. and this project isnt worthy of that kinda work.
b20luda wrote: Update -
So i replaced the head gasket yesterday. I replaced it with a Felpro and used copper spray. i decieded to try and tighten the head bolts over stock and used ARP moly lube on the bolts instead of the recommended motor oil.
We'll see what happens, the old head gasket was deformed around the metal sealing ring that seals the combustion chamber and had went right to the cooling port.. it was definatly blown.
The felpro gasket does look better.. but time will tell..
b20luda wrote: Here is an update,
Car has always ran solid, however it started smoking again and it was getting worse and worse.. pulled turbo thinking it was the cause.. but it looked spotless..
Figured it was something to do with the head/valve guides so it was parked for the last month or so..
I aquired another head (thanks moosepower!), this time B20A, had it surfaced valve job new seals and installed that this last weekend.. so far the smoking is gone. The guides in that other head were a little loose this head is a lower mileage JDM unit..
Other than the smoking issues its ran perfect.. i did a leakdown test on it prior to taking it apart.. it had less than a 1% leakdown on a stone cold motor!! so shes still tight and my redneck hone job seemed to work.
The cylinder head was the root cause, i could see oil coming from the valve guides into the ports and causing the smoking.
All is better now.. if there is ever a cheap dyno day around here i will throw it on there just for shits.. i turned the boost down to 9psi for now..
Time will tell, im hoping this is the last time i pull the head...
b20luda wrote: I was just going to post a little update, this car is my daily, gets driven and boosted on frequently it has a little over 7,000 miles on it since it was built, about 6500 boosted miles.. been running great... i should mess with the tune some to get some more MPG's, but I've just been driving it.. It gets between 27-29 pretty consistantly I've hit 30 twice...
Head gasket has been holding up this time around ( i seriously knocked on wood) lol
Anyone that has a spare 1500 bucks and some time can do this!! And do it the right way
b20luda wrote: an update on this little meth whore
Got over 12K miles on it so far, been running perfect. Not a single problem besides the shitty 23 year old motor mounts being sloppy.. so i did a little 3M window weld action.. ive done this in the past (way way past lol) and it worked good.
b20luda wrote: 21k miles still daily driven, upped boost a tad, now 14psi..
Havent had any issues with it besides a leaky heater hose. Rapes Mustangs..
b20luda wrote: This thing has just rolled 30k miles since it was boosted... still running strong 14psi non intercooled.. still my daily driver. No issues related to turbocharging since the first few hurtles I encountered. Been solid. Pretty surprised actually.
b20luda wrote: This bad Bish is still rolling strong!! put a 3 bar map sensor in it and thats about all ive done to it lately.
I drive it everyday got almost 218k miles on the clock it had 174k on it when i boosted it.. been great, Boost currently sits around 15-16psi.. It could really use an intercooler i may install one eventually but the ABS needs to go first!!
I think this is proof these engines can be beat on and reliable within reason.. 43k miles, catch can never has anything in it ( i check it every oil change)
Eventually id like to put a little better turbo on it too, these old ford turbos are gay.
b20luda wrote: Yes i sold the car, it was fun but ive owned preludes for 17 years!! I drove it to work everyday and i just wanted something nicer and more comfortable to drive... and not a damn 5 spd!! Guess im getting old! I got good money for it, actually made almost 1000 dollars off it while putting 50k miles on it!